yes and no

[verbminx]

First - hey paid members, this is for you.

-
Next - I have been thinking tonight of things that I like and do not like on LJ.

I generally like most people I come across. There are good ideas, interesting thoughts, and so on to be seen here. I don't know how to say this without it sounding trite - it's no great revelation.

However, there are things that I notice and either look askance at, or think are just plain...
weird.

One thing that I dislike is snobbery and politicking. This creeps in in a lot of ways... whether it's stuff I've been feeling lately about a former friend cozening up to someone on my friends list (something I really want to stay out of - I like the person involved & don't want to create a political issue out of it), or debating whether to add a controversial figure to mine, or seeing other people fight about silly things... that sort of thing. I think the usual appropriate response is to do nothing in either direction. Throw my hands up in the air and either ignore whatever is going on, or, if I am involved, try to behave like a grownup rather than a junior high school girl. I don't like cliques, cabals, or most cults of personality.

One of my utmost dislikes is the rather posturing debate about what differentiates a "journal" from a "mere diary". Don't try so fucking hard. I'm here because I want to know how your day was, not read your little prefab essay that is supposed to prove how brilliant and talented you are. "jour" is the french word for "day" - both "diary" and "journal" refer to daily records. I like to read people's commentary about things they've watched or seen, and I like to see the occasional photo. I do not like to feel like someone is putting on a show. (I keep people like that off my list, usually... I just can't deal with the pretentions.)

Speaking of prefab - yes, in most cases, it bothers me when I feel that someone has written an entire entry (not fiction or poetry or anything, that's a little different) in a notebook first and then rewritten it to put up here on LJ, usually turning absolutely every sentence into a metaphor. And speaking of metaphor, poetry is not entirely comprised thereof. There has to be an idea behind it... or more often, several. Bad poetry makes my teeth hurt. (especially when i'm the perp.)

I'm really not ragging on anyone in particular... in fact, if you're reading this, it's a pretty safe bet that I'm not referring to you. More just... journals I've stumbled on and run from while choking on my screams, and debates I see either in my friends' comment areas, or referred to in their entries or in the public forums relating to LJ.

This is a good place, and still a very good thing in spite of its problems.

Comments

bibbling and babbling ...

[muse.livejournal.com]

I tend to agree with you mostly, especially about the politicking involved in LiveJournal-land. I was recently removed from the list of a person who has been on my friends list and I on hers since almost a year because she saw that I had a controversial name on my friends' list during my sick-time down. Instead of addressing the issue to me in e-mail, she just removed me and made a snipy post about it.

I come here to write, talk about my day, and ponder my daily life. I don't come to be hated for stupid reasons or part of any clique. I think that all people who use LiveJournal bear that same right. We are just people, not super-humans.

Truly, I could be one of the people you walk about with the metaphors. I tend to like to write a lot, and I have a lot to say. Even when speaking to others I am like this because my mind is overactive. I just slap my entries up and hope they're okay. But many times, I am typing something that I've written in my offline, hand-written journal.

Blargh, I babble.

Also, happy belated birthday. I'm still getting back into the swing of things.

Be well,
muse

Re: bibbling and babbling ...

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

oh, thanks for the bday thing, and i hope you're feeling better.

i think your metaphoricalness is just part of the way you write - it doesn't look wrung-out like some other ppl's. it doesn't have that "trying too hard" factor. like i said, i don't think anyone on my lists is really guilty of much of this, except maybe some politics. :) (and politics happen to us all...)

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

I read people's journals cuz I think they're interesting or I think they have something to say or something they've said struck me deeply and I recognize a kindred spirit in what they're writing. I hate a lot of the pretention I see on here -- I am a professional writer in real life but here I just want to play. If people want to turn their journals into Performance Art, that's fine. Just don't insist that everyone has to do that or else.

I also hate the politicking. It makes me very unhappy and uncomfortable. I'm in a similar situation to yours and I keep my mouth shut because it's not worth turning into a 12 yr. old about it. It's gonna happen like it does in any community but it makes me sad nonetheless. I don't expect everyone to like me and in fact, I don't really care if they don't. However, I'd prefer it to be for real reasons rather than some bizarre litmus test of my hip ratio.

I don't post my poetry usually cuz I don't want to subject anyone to painful and awful things. I mean okay, I've suffered for my art and maybe it *IS* your turn, but I tend to be too kind hearted for that. :-)

The only thing that rilly bugs me and it's a stupid stupid thing is that there is no way to block someone from your friends list if you don't want 'em on there. Oh well, it could be worse.

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

just don't list them back. you can delete ppl from your friends, and TMK, people who list you as a friend who you don't list back can't read your friends-only posts, but they can see your public posts on their "friends" page.

Re:

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

No, I know. There's just someone who listed me as a friend a while back who I didn't know, still don't know why she did and as far as I know she doesn't even post to her journal anymore. Her name just stands out on that list like a zit or something. ;-)

[jet.livejournal.com]

applause.

..

[whorlpool.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure my journal fits the definition of a "diary" or a "journal" anymore; it's become more of an writer's notebook than anything else. Whenever I do deal with my emotions here, I tend to twist them beyond recognition; otherwise they might leap up and destroy me.

Re: ..

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

hmm. but you're honest about the fact that you're using it as a notebook. what i mean might make more sense if you read the other replies i wrote to comments on this thread.

i don't mind that you do what you do, but i have to admit that i sometimes skim over your "novelistic plot" entries on the friends page and then go to your actual journal page after a couple of days, to catch up on a few at a time. i do the same thing with muse, and i think it's because both of you write longer entries that i want to pay a little more attention to.

Just a few "Technical" Questions : )

[bookfoole.livejournal.com]

First off, before the questions, while I don't like the politicking --I have no problems with pre-written, essays, etc. A journal (or diary) should/can be whatever the writer wants it to be. If someone goes to the trouble of polishing something up (which I rarely do), I'm happy to take a look at it. I think the main problem is that someone can polish something up and it can still be bad.

Question #1 - How do you do that "(Read More...)" link. That's great! I'd like to do it my longer entries.

Question #2 - That link for paid credit --is that from you? or from LJ? Either way thanks for posting it. I'll have a permanent account soon, but I was thinking that's a cool way to distribute my left over paid credit.

Re: Just a few

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

the link for paid credit is from bradfitz... he posted it to the paidmembers community and asked that we pass it around because not all paid members read the community. they decided to do it because we've had tons of outages.

the read more thing is "lj-cut" - you put it in <> when you want to have your entry show up on friends pages as a blurb. Like an HTML tag - I'm not showing you the whole thing properly because I have no idea what it will do to this response! Wherever you put it, it places (Read More) with a link & then on your comments page, starts the rest of what you've typed on the next line. I think there is more info on it on the "news" area or maybe the lj_dev area.

as far as polishing - yes, that's what i mean. i dunno, the idea of having the "best journal" is something like having the "best life" - and that's just weird. If ppl want to post "stuff they've written", cool, that doesn't bother me. It's when people overpoeticize their daily life that my nerves are gotten on... when you can tell that rather than simply saying "It was snowing, so we went across the street and bought some tasty hot cocoa" (or words to that effect, simply and directly), it becomes expanded into "struggling, in the blanched depths of snow, soaking to our knees, chilblain-bait, we made our weary way through the cruel shooting traffic, though at a light of ruby hue, and to the great warmth and new light of Balthazar's Coffee, verily the caffeine-rich paradise of the entire town. Our server, our helper, hair of golden hue, buxom as the milkmaid she resembled, inquired in honeyed tones as to our desires, and soon, soon, our miserable visages were warmed with the steam of hot, richly-chocolated fruit of the dairy."

so yeah, i suppose it does come down to a matter of bad writing, but when it irks me is when I can tell that someone who is writing badly (not that my prosaic entries are much better) is getting a lot of positive attention for it, and writing in that style primarily to garner that attention. Does that make sense?

all in all, of course, it is a matter of personal taste. i just... don't think that journals should become a political contest over who is the best writer. there are some people who aren't the most skilled writers whose journals are still interesting, and some who are skilled but... full of it or themselves. I don't know. I think I'm lost in theory here. :)

Re: Just a few

[whorlpool.livejournal.com]

"struggling, in the blanched depths of snow, soaking to our knees, chilblain-bait, we made our weary way through the cruel shooting traffic, though at a light of ruby hue, and to the great warmth and new light of Balthazar's Coffee, verily the caffeine-rich paradise of the entire town. Our server, our helper, hair of golden hue, buxom as the milkmaid she resembled, inquired in honeyed tones as to our desires, and soon, soon, our miserable visages were warmed with the steam of hot, richly-chocolated fruit of the dairy."

If you're going to use my words, you should credit me for it!! lol :)

Oh wow, I'm still laughing. How wonderful.

[ayun.livejournal.com]

I guess it's all what you go looking for.

My journal would probably fall more into the pretentious/overwrought category than most, but then I always expected it to be seen that way. And those are also the journals I tend to enjoy reading the most. I like to write, and that's what my journal's for. You've got a different perspective.

A matter of taste, perhaps?

The literal definition of a word like journal or diary or art for that matter, usually doesn't mean much to people who fancy themselves artists...

I agree about the politics - though I think that's something that any community or (sub) culture has to deal with.

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

I haven't read your journal much, so I couldn't comment either way on that! (That is to say, your name looks familiar, but that's all I can summon.)

but... I think there is a fine line. Of course people should do what they want to do... I just think... there should be some humility involved, I guess. If a person wants to be known as "the best writer", via what is supposed to be a record of their life and thoughts... it seems kind of skewed to me, the motives seem questionable (whereas, wanting to be known as a fantastic writer via one's own fiction, poetry, etc, posted on one's own webpage or on themestream or something is different). I suppose it's the idea that people are writing and rewriting and getting into some... dishonesty (about spontaneity, or even about events themselves)... that bothers me... if it appears to me that they're doing it to get attention or to try to impress people. Specifically, if someone writes an entry, cool, that's how it came out. If someone writes an entry on paper, attacks it with a thesaurus, rewrites, etc, before finally posting it... that's not "real". It's an artificial process. & fiction & poetry & essays are fine if ppl want to post them, but there is a difference between the daily record and such. (& if you remember certain scandals about fake journals, you'll understand what i mean, i think.)

specifically with the "literal definition" bit, I was thinking of the apocryphal person who says "I don't keep a [*sniff*] diary, I keep a journal" - as if a diary is a simple matter of "I bought beans today" and a journal is something far, far more honorable and lofty and above all that. I think... they're the same thing. They're "what you make of it", not a definition in themselves. There is nothing "more special" about keeping something that you call a "journal" vs keeping something that you call a "diary".

(of course, not "you personally", i mean the "general you, one, etc"! :)

[ayun.livejournal.com]

What you said further up, in response to Bookfoole, makes perfect sense to me, and I think I'd agree with you, especially with regards to good/bad writing and the idea that a journal can be compelling even if it isn't written in beautiful language.

I don't like bad writing either, but, unfortunately or not, 'bad' is pretty hard to define. :)

nope...

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

you're *not* the kind of person i was kvetching about. read your recent entries. added you. so there! :)