die, creepy bookstore stalker guy, die.

[verbminx]

So.

I woke up feeling not great today. Actually it's a wonder that I woke up at all! Not in the "deadminx" sense, more in the... I heard my alarm and it did not mentally connect with "get up" for me, as it usually does, it connected with "must stop shrill irritating noise" and that was as far as it went. I feel a little under-the-weather, and I was having strange dreams, and - I don't know, I suppose I don't have an excuse.

After lousing around the house for a while, my mother suggested that I come with her to Kinko's so that she could fax some documents (oh, that funeral? we're so paying for it. yay.) - and you know, Kinko's is rightnexttoTargetmypersonalmecca. So I got ready. Then it came out that she was faxing only to avoid making a phonecall (she has social anxiety). So with some prodding she made the call and we were left bewilderingly planless, and as a result decided to drive out to Borders so as to sit around, drink coffeeish things, and browse through books etc, perhaps even study.

I collected a stack of books - looking, for instance, in bookmaking books for information about fore-edge carving and painting, and instructions - and wandered over to the cafe area, where she was seated. When I went to look at magazines after setting my stuff at the table, this guy appeared at the end of the magazine aisle, and sort of... menaced me along. I don't know how to describe it, but I felt like he was overly interested in me. He was wearing a red t-shirt and very noisy nylon pants in black or navy and some kind of black windbreaker jacket. Late 30s(ish), longish hair, slight facial hair. Clean (didn't smell).

This would have passed as just a weird moment, except that every time I went to a new section of the bookstore, he appeared there a minute later and started walking down the aisle I was in. Looking at Serge Gainsbourg cds? he appears. How about books on style? You know it. Art? he's interested. Et. Fucking. Cetera. He also kept intentionally walking right next to our cafe table. And whenever my mom got up, he'd get up and follow her; whenever I got up, he'd get up and follow me. If we were both sitting down, he'd find a table to sit at nearby, and stare. He carried a book, but never once looked at it or any other book in the store.



Finally I got fed the fuck up and went over to the Psych section, where I proceeded to assemble a HUGE stack of books on depression and OCD; sure enough, he passed by and checked out what I was doing. I took the books back to the table; he had already returned to the area and taken his seat. I then endeavored to develop an impressive interest in clinical depression. (read something at the end of an unquiet mind that rang true, which is that most truly depressed people are just painfully boring and self-absorbed and tend to exhaust the patience/compassion of most people around them). he lurked over the table for a minute, then disappeared. It's my opinion that the Strategy For Ridding Oneself of Creepy Bookstore Stalker Guys had worked. (basically, it's to pick up a bunch of books that make you look like a serious headcase or at least a nightmare of insecurity and reliance on the teachings of Wayne Dyer and Dr Phil.)

After a while my mom got up and went to look at craft books, and guess where he was? Sitting in the art section. Just sitting back in a chair, not looking at anything. Guess what section the majority of my books were from? Yeah. She thinks he was waiting for me to take them back. I think he had shifted his attention to her. Whatever the case, we checked out in stages and were careful to leave the store when he wasn't around.

and honestly... the whole time... I wasn't nervous, or afraid, or after the first incident really intimidated... I was irritated as hell. Who ARE you? what do you want? where in any compendium of idiot lore did you pick up the idea that this constitutes ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR? I went with my first impulse, which was to seemingly ignore him. The other impulse was confrontation, but... it didn't seem like a good idea. You know, someone stares at you? Stare back. Someone follows you around the store? start following them. They give you a hard time? Be really fucking mean. etc.

Anyway. After that we drove a ways away and had dinner somewhere, which was very enjoyable. Then we drove home, in the fog, which was not so enjoyable as dinner had been.

& I am GLAD to be home.

Comments

[psychousagi.livejournal.com]

*nodnodnod*
being a B&N wage slave I am all too familiar with the stalker phenomena. I tell all the new girl employees: "You're not a true book girl till you've had your first stalker." KIDDING. Seriously though, there are more creepy, lonely, stalker guys out there than people realize. The ones I've encountered in the store aren't really evil perverts or anything, they just have no personal/social skills and occasionally are fuzzy on the concept of 'personal space'.

If it happens again, grab a manager and let them do the confrontational stuff, even though they may not want to, but that's what they're there for. Or in some cases, the manager will call a cop if the stalker-guy isn't being cooperative, it's happened in my store before. :)

[defensor.livejournal.com]

but what if he'd taken her on as a goddess in his own personal religion? wouldn't that then be religious persecution? ;)
also, if you're in a store like that and things come to confrontation, cd cases make for good shuriken.

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

I used to wage-slave in a bookstore... not B&N or Borders, but another superstore company that is more regional. Anyway, yeah, I definitely had guys who would come in looking for me. I also used a variation of my name at work, because I chatted on a local BBS - this was in the mid-90s - and I was having problems with people from the BBS showing up and watching me at work (at my previous job), and then (later, online) telling me stuff like what I was wearing, what I was eating on break, etc. (When I worked at this bookstore, I also got stalked by the gf of a guy who I was friendly with. Fun.)

we also had a few instances where the management called the police, but I was never there for them... they always seemed to happen on my days off.

this guy, I didn't know what to do about him. He was slightly less menacing than the requirement for complaint, but still very very annoying. If I ever see him again I'm definitely going to talk to the staff about him. We go to this store a lot, so we're "known" there.

[hilarykay.livejournal.com]

being briefly stalked like that is so freaky if you are alone... it happened to me a while back when I was on a walk and it made me feel sick with panic, also seriously felt like walking up to the guy and punching him.
This man was following me but not very closely and at one point he stood behind this post and peered out,as though he thought I would see him " look at meee, I'm invisible!"

what a freak.

ALso: "...most truly depressed people are just painfully boring and self-absorbed...."

do you really believe that? Its pretty harsh.

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

it is pretty harsh, and i don't mean it as a reflection on anyone in particular.

it's just... true. depression is a disease of intense self-absorption. most people who really suffer from it are in their own little black holes. and most people around them end up being just exhausted from trying to keep that person going in the world... trying to include them, raise their spirits, anything.

this isn't something i came up with myself, by the way... it's a point that has been brought up in every literary writing i've ever read on the topic. i just don't disagree with it. and i think most people who would disagree probably don't distinguish ups-and-downs sadness, even if the lows are pretty low, and actual "clinical depression" (or its cousin, dysthymic disorder). someone posted something on lj the other day from elizabeth wurtzel's prozac nation, about how depression needs to not be romantically classified as "madness" (with the connotations of drama, brilliance, acting out) because it actually robs artists of their best working time. etc.

not a very cohesive response, but my train of thought ran off the tracks

[hilarykay.livejournal.com]

I already wrote a response but my computer crashed.

(anyhow- arguing will probably prove to be fruitless but that has never stopped me before))

"depression is a disease of intense self-absorption. most people who really suffer from it are in their own little black holes."
Basically, that's YOUR truth, that's your perception. You are describing the depressed person in YOUR life, but it doesn't apply to everyone.

Point in case: My own mother. She has suffered from clinical depression for about 5 decades (since childhood) but she doesn't suffer from "intense self absorption". She has been medicated, in therapy, etc etc...She is the exact opposite of what you have described, she is compassionate and has devoted her life to family and to social work... she exceeds the expectation of her job, she puts other people before herself and she has taken care of me (the fuck-up, the possible black-hole) for the better part of 23 years.
There were times in my childhood when she seemed withdrawn and distant... these were times when the depression was all-consuming... but aside from that she has concealed it completely, it doesn't DEFINE her.. its a mood disorder that she lives with.
That's one example. I am well aware that my own life, my own personality probably supports your point. If people with depression are black-holes then I wonder why you are interacting with me. I certainly am self-absorbed and selfish to say the least. Those are my tendencies, my weaknesses and its apparent.
I had several boyfriends and friends with depression-everything from low-grade to full out psycho drug-addicted untreated bipolar disorder- and they were all different- they all expressed it differently. I guess you could see the mental illness MANIFESTS differently in different people.
Also, I have "been" different people, so to speak... meaning that I have behaved in vastly different ways throughout my life... I used to be completely withdrawn and guileless while experiencing depression and then for a time I was very angry and volatile.
Phases I suppose.
I have seen depression bring out compassion in people, self awareness, humility and I have seen it bring out the absolute worst.
The black-hole concept you describe is one way to look at it. Depression and other mental illnesses 'cause' people to behave in a variety of ways.
Just think of the way that some people express their PANIC as anger/rage (often men I believe), and how others turn that anxiety inward until it manifests in chronic health problems.

"and most people around them end up being just exhausted from trying to keep that person going in the world... trying to include them, raise their spirits, anything. "

I lived with two "mentally ill" parents and they were like night and day. My mother didn't exhaust me, she has never asked me to 'raise her spirits' or put me in that position... my father, on the other hand...well, you have read about him.

I could write about the other close relatives I have who are disturbed in their own ways and that would further illustrate how diversity of people w/ depression.
(I'll spare you)


"it actually robs artists of their best working time. etc."

I also have to disagree with this statement; that isn't necessarily true in my experience.

Re: not a very cohesive response, but my train of thought ran off the tracks

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

OK, let's discuss this in the short, roundabout, fast way. There is a big problem with any dissection I would do of what you just wrote, which is that you have used personal anecdotal evidence for your side of the argument... which means that, in order to address those issues, i'd have to get into ad hominem attacks. which i don't wanna do because i like you. :)

basically, any time you have a generalization, someone is going to be able to pop up and say "Yes, but I know person X, and they have exceptions Y and Z to this comment." much as a generalization may be true taking a percentage of a sample of people, and is just as easily NOT going to be true about the rest of that percentage, the anecdotal evidence of someone's Aunt Sally is going to be contradictory. They may relate to the same topic, but they aren't the same thing, and aren't really useful, in terms of logic, in a discussion. All you can really prove is that those people do not fit the criteria for inclusion in the group I'm discussing anyway.

Also, any exceptions to a generalization may have other factors. In your mother's case, medication may have helped, or she may have been dealing with more of a "general grey" rather than a major depression. In your own case, who is to say that you are producing your best work? If not troubled by physical and mental illness, you might in fact be producing stronger work or be working more consistently. In other cases, some issues may be different due to environmental factors or other conditions suffered by the people in question.

For instance, my mother and aunt were both abused children: physically, emotionally, and sexually. They both have a ton of psych problems as a result. My mother, while fitting some general depressive criteria, only really had any episodes that I noticed when my stepfather died, and it became increasingly difficult to even get her to get out of bed (this has been detailed here on my LJ). This is a pretty understandable trigger for a major depressive episode! Most of her problems have otherwise been expressed as anxiety or rage (and, um, the screwiness of the way I was raised). She is now on Paxil for her anxiety and depression. My aunt, on the other hand, does indeed suffer from major depressions, more than the general emotional grayness and low self-esteem that characterizes the momster's wee head, and has on numerous occasions threatened suicide (and on occasion, when her daughter was younger, thought about killing her daughter too, so as to "not hurt her"), or had phases where she just didn't get out of bed for days at a time (one of them while she was living with us), when she may have been suicidal, but in order to find out one would have had to get her to actually TALK. So... for every mom dad and me that one person can bring up, i can say, yeah, but look at my mom and my aunt and the contrast. neither of them is going to topple anyone's argument.

The fact is that the majority of people who have severe clinical depression, who suffer "major depressions" of the "cannot get out of bed, cannot wash hair" variety, the ones who think that picking up a pencil may just be too much effort, will fall under what i said, and it's documented, and i'm not the person who came up with it. I don't know why, I don't necessarily think it's a great thing. & it's not the case that they will be like that ALL THE TIME: I'm speaking of when they're having an episode. But I could send you to LJs, even, that you would find painfully boring because 90% of the time, day after day, they say, "My life sucks. It's too hard. I hate everything. I cried all day." etc.
(continued...)

Re: not a very cohesive response, but my train of thought ran off the tracks

[verbminx.livejournal.com]

(also, FWIW, I've taken a ton of those online psych tests and nearly all of them say that I do suffer from major depressions. I just can't afford therapy to get a real diagnosis. However, I know what has triggered them - usually a major disappointment, often a breakup. I never get as bad as the "cannot get out of bed, never showers" people, but I do indeed find myself perpetually distracted and unable to be as productive as I would like, and that I am deeply, deeply boring, especially to people who do not want to hear me picking through the tangle of my failed relationship with Bingo The Great, etc. So once again, there's another anecdote for you!)